Diet, Exercise and.... Doodling?

[00:00:01] Speaker A: I don't know if art can be healing. I know of a talking to my students over the course of many years. They all say quite vehemently that they are healed by making art. Making art seems to definitely have healing properties. [00:00:30] Speaker B: Welcome to the Age of Aging, a. [00:00:32] Speaker C: Podcast about living well with an aging. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Brain, produced by the Penn Memory Center. I'm Jake Johnson. [00:00:38] Speaker D: And I'm Terrence Casey. [00:00:40] Speaker B: So, Terrence, today's episode is about doing things with your hands and why it's good for your brain. And I'm curious, do you have any crafts or hobbies that you do that involve your hands? [00:00:55] Speaker D: Sure, yeah, I've got a couple. Probably my most frequent ones are kind of a variety of workouts in the gym in the morning, a lot of weightlifting in there, which is not a particularly creative task. I tend to follow exactly what my app tells me to do, but certainly requires some mobility and hand strength there. But the more creative ones would be, I try to play the piano a few times a week at home rather poorly, but try to tap into my years of lessons. And then I do a lot of small doodles and puzzles for my kids in the morning in their lunchboxes. I have three young kids and try to do either a rebus puzzle or some sort of wordplay for my older kids. And then some pretty terrible doodles of everything from movie characters to the Fanatic for my youngest child. How about you, though? How do you use your hands for brain health? [00:01:52] Speaker B: That is so cute, by the way. Um, I wish I got doodles in my lunchbox. You know, I wish I did more, probably. I also go to the gym, but it does feel like not the most creative task. As you said. Sometimes when I'm at the gym, I play basketball. I mean, by myself, I just shoot. But it's very relaxing. I kind of get into, like, a certain flow. And then I actually just started taking guitar lessons. So I moved to Philly a year and a half ago. Didn't know anybody here. And so I'm trying out different classes. So I signed up for a group guitar class in South Philly, which has been really fun. And it's a completely different activity than I do in my daily life, which I'm really enjoying, honestly, because I was. [00:02:40] Speaker C: Never a musical person growing up. [00:02:42] Speaker B: I think I tried and failed at multiple instruments. [00:02:45] Speaker C: So to actually start to get the. [00:02:46] Speaker B: Hang of the guitar and get in the rhythm of it and starting to have fun with it and not just feel frustrated with it has been really nice. Actually. I would be lying if I said I wasn't thinking about my work on this episode and the podcast in general when I started the guitar lessons because that was definitely a part of it. I've always wanted to learn guitar or like speak a different language. But then talking to experts and hearing like, actually this is going to be really good for your brain to have this kind of learning experience in your day to day life definitely motivated me to get out there and try and find a teacher and pay for classes and stuff. [00:03:25] Speaker D: So yeah, perhaps we should update our brain health recommendations to say that the best thing you could do for brain health is to work for an Alzheimer's disease research center. Because I can say that before I worked here, I had late nights with many 1am hoagies, working in a newsroom or having cold pizza for a second dinner, and sat at a desk for nine hours a day. And you're right, just being here and reading the research that we see come across our desk every day is really great motivation for getting off your seat, on your feet, eating better, and practicing these other brain health exercises. So you'd said that we were gonna talk today about working with your hands to improve brain health. Do you wanna give us a little bit of preview of what it is that you had reported for this story? [00:04:18] Speaker B: So one of the things that comes up a lot when we talk to patients and people that are part of the memory center and caregivers are brain aging tips. People really wanna know, how do I live longer, how do I keep my brain healthier? Basically, how do I not get dementia? Which is not something that you can fully plan for. But when our outreach team goes onto the community, they give healthy brain aging talks to different groups and a lot of that is about diet and also a lot of it is about exercise. So one of the things that's really stuck with me is exercise that's good for your heart, is good for your brain, and the same with diet. So we wanted to touch on something that wasn't diet and exercise specifically, but actually just doing crafts and things with your hands and why that is beneficial to your brain long term. So there was a New York times article featuring Dr. Kelly Lambert, who was in this piece about the benefit of working with your hands. So I reached out to her and she was great. Marie engineering from the podcast team, she helped me conduct that interview and then a few more interviews with two other researchers. One is from the Penn center for Neurosthetics and her colleague who lives in Turkey. And they talked to us a bit about their research into how movement benefits cognition as well. So that's one aspect of the episode. And then the second part of the episode. Me, Marie and Dalia from the podcast team went to South Philly to interview an artist in residence at the Penn center for Neuro Aesthetics. And her name is Judith Schechter, who does these incredible stained glass pieces and is also just hilarious. It was just a great time talking to her and going to her beautiful studio with all of this glass around and hearing about her creative process, because we really wanted to just talk to somebody that works with their hands every day and does a craft about what that is like and what her creative process was like. So we have a little science and we have a little. A little art at the end. [00:06:37] Speaker D: Well, excellent. I'm looking forward to hearing about it. I'm looking forward to learning what neuro aesthetics even is. I think I can get a brief idea, but I imagine we're going to get into that a little bit in the piece ahead. And who knows, maybe I'll be signing up for my own guitar lessons by the end of the story. [00:07:01] Speaker C: When members of PMC's outreach team give Healthy Brain Aging talks in the community, they cite exercise as one of, if not the single greatest thing you can do for your brain's health and longevity as you age. But exercise is an incredibly broad category and not the only kind of activity that can stimulate the mind in positive ways. In fact, just doing things with our hands can be incredibly beneficial for our brain as well as our mood and overall happiness. Dr. Kelly Lambert is a behavioral neuroscientist at the University of Richmond. [00:07:34] Speaker E: When you look at the brain and you appreciate how much of the brain's real estate is devoted to movement, it's really compelling. We have this back part of our brain called the cerebellum, and it's involved mostly in motor coordination. And in humans, 78% of all the brain cells called neurons are located in that cerebellum. Not in our prefrontal cortex that allows us to do executive functioning, but in the cerebellum that's involved in coordinating movement and allowing us to interact with our environments. And then we have a big chunk of the middle of the brain called the striate. And when this is compromised, it results in neurodegenerative diseases such as Parkinson's and Huntington's disease that influences movement. There are more areas related to movement than other functions, even though those other functions are really important, cognition and emotion. But it makes you think that as we have changed where we live a different lifestyle Than our ancestors, who really needed to get around to find food and to avoid predators. If our brain evolved to move us around, which it looks like it did, Our sedentary lifestyles that seem so impressive May not be the best prescription for our brains. [00:08:50] Speaker C: If you zoom in even closer on one region of the brain devoted to movement called the motor cortex, Dr. Lambert said that you will find that it is disproportionately devoted to our face and hands. [00:09:02] Speaker E: So you have a lot of brain activity going to the hands. And we have a right and a left hemisphere in our brain. So my right hemisphere is controlling my left hand and vice versa. So if you're doing something with your hands, one, you're engaging a good bit of your motor cortex area. If you're using both hands in this contralateral way, you're activating both hemispheres. So that's activating the brain in a pretty engaged way. [00:09:30] Speaker C: Dr. Lambert explained that if we look back at human evolution, Our hands are some of the most intricate and important tools we ever developed, Allowing us to interact and manipulate our environment in precise, unique ways. Our hands then, are a central way for us to engage our brains and in the process, release various neurochemicals that help us de stress and stave off depression. [00:09:54] Speaker E: Let's take knitting, for example. You're using both hands, so you're engaging both hemispheres. Also, as you anticipate and see what you're creating, you're gaining a sense of control over your environment. Maybe nothing you did that day seemed to produce something you could see. But with cooking or knitting or something, you start to see a dish or a scarf or something emerging which could engage some of those feel good neurochemicals, Such as dopamine. And if we're doing something like knitting in a knitting circle or cooking group, the social aspect could increase. A neurochemical known as oxytocin. And oxytocin seems to have some feel good qualities and can reduce stress. And if we're thinking about something like depression, about 50% of individuals who are diagnosed with depression have high stress hormone levels. So anything you can do to decrease those levels are going to put you in a healthier place, not just for depression, but for longevity of the brain and health of the brain. [00:10:53] Speaker C: Lambert's research falls under the umbrella of experience based neuroplasticity. [00:10:58] Speaker E: So this idea that we can change our brains throughout our lives from the womb to the tomb, it could be for the positive and adaptive changes, or negative, with addiction or brain injuries, brain disease and such, so our brains can. [00:11:13] Speaker C: Change when it comes to aging and longevity. Dr. Lambert said that neuroplasticity allows the brain to build up cognitive reserve. If you've listened to our episode from season two, Building Trust, you might recognize that term. In that episode, Dr. Eddie Lee explained how life experiences like education, travel, learning, an instrument, et cetera build a quote unquote reserve which may help protect the brain from the effects of neurodegenerative diseases. So working with your hands to craft and create something may also be a way to contribute to cognitive reserve and protect yourself from dementia as you age. [00:11:50] Speaker E: So through engagement and enrichment and things like maybe these effort based rewards and exercise, you can build up through neuroplasticity, a reserve that if you do have a neurodegenerative disease or even a traumatic brain injury come on board, it may give you a buffer that may be several years. Our western idea of medicine and to pill it's surgery, it's not knitting. But I think insurance should probably pay for your yarn because it may keep you healthier longer. So how do we Change that conversation? [00:12:22] Speaker C: Dr. Vasiliki Melataki is a researcher at the Penn center for Neuroesthetics. She and her colleague Dr. Gilton Hussain study different ways the environment and our bodies shape cognition and well being. Embodied cognition is the term they and other researchers use to describe how our minds exist not just in our brain, but in our entire bodies. In one study, Dr. Malataki and colleagues looked at how art creation can help treat trauma through non verbal communication and expression. [00:12:52] Speaker F: One of the main ways that we. [00:12:54] Speaker A: See art engagement happening is in nonverbal expression. [00:12:59] Speaker F: We have for example, a very cool. [00:13:01] Speaker A: Project where the therapists there are engaged in art therapy sessions with military personnel. [00:13:07] Speaker F: And we see how people going through. [00:13:10] Speaker A: Therapy can use art creation for a non verbal expression of their emotions, especially when these emotions turn harder to express. [00:13:19] Speaker C: Another form of non verbal expression and embodied cognition are hand gestures. Dr. Hussain explained that there is an overlap in the area of the brain related to speech and the area related to hand movement. [00:13:32] Speaker G: The studies show that when we use our hands to think, they help us with word retrieval and to conceptualize our ideas, also to activate our mental imagery, our mind's eye. So hand gestures are not only part of language, but they're also part of cognition. [00:13:48] Speaker C: Embodied cognition has many implications for us as we age. According to Dr. Hussain. She said studies have shown a link between degeneration and hand movement and a degeneration in speech in older age. Another study showed that in people with severe cognitive impairment, hand grip strength was correlated with their level of impairment, meaning that the weaker their hand strength, the more severe their impairment. So when it comes to maintaining healthy cognition as we age, it seems as though hand movement is a significant part of the equation both in how we communicate and our memory. [00:14:21] Speaker G: There was one study with patients with aphasia. So they recorded patients when they were speaking. They were using their hand gestures, so their speech was impaired, but people could get information from the hand gestures. And then there was a group that did not have any speech impairments, and they also gestured in the same way. And then when people were watching those videos, when they watched the aphasia patients, they focused more on the gestures to get more information. So some practical implication of that could be. For example, there are some gesture naming therapies for rehabilitation aphasia, where they teach people with aphasia to use their hands so their carers can communicate with them easily, and encouraging carers as well to look at those people's gestures to get the information that they cannot get from speech. They also have found that when stroke patients are encouraged to use their hand because maybe their conceptual knowledge has not been lost completely, they can retrieve the word, especially for spatial reasoning. So there are two camps. One of them says sometimes gestures compensate for speech, sometimes they help for retrieval. So these are some of the ways that gestures can be helpful for aging people. [00:15:35] Speaker C: So for the second part of this episode, we wanted to understand the experience of working with your hands from someone who does it every day. Judith Schechter is a Philadelphia based artist and resident at the Penn center for Neurosthetics. She uses stained glass to create these incredibly vivid and intricate pieces and recently finished an amazing stained glass refresh room as a project for her residency. [00:15:56] Speaker B: I really recommend you check out her work. [00:15:58] Speaker C: We'll link her website in the show notes. Members of the podcast team, Marie, Dalia and myself went to Judith's house and studio in South Philly to talk to her about her work and process. [00:16:11] Speaker A: I went to art school. I thought I was going to be an oil painter, but when I was a student the graduate painting studios were located in the same building, really close to the glass studio. And I just happened to see the stained glass classes work and I got really excited. I took the class and it changed my life. I have not stopped since then. That was 1908. This goes a while ago. [00:16:40] Speaker C: Judith's parents both graduated from the University of Pennsylvania. Her father a microbiologist and her mother with a degree in social work. [00:16:49] Speaker A: And she started dedicating herself to working with my brother back then, he was diagnosed as aphasia, and he didn't learn to speak until he was about 10 or 11. As a result of this, my mother had piles of books on the brain lying around the house, and I read them, and I was fascinated by the rulings of human consciousness and all of that. So I've been reading neuroscience books for the layman for a long time. And I read Anjahn Chatterjee's book, the Aesthetic Bling. It's one of my absolute favorite books. [00:17:24] Speaker C: It was years later that Judith said she learned that the Penn center for neuro aesthetics, which Dr. Chatterjee is the founding director of, had a residency program for artists, citing one of her hobbies as, quote, listening to smart people talk. She pursued the residency and eventually got it. [00:17:41] Speaker A: Well, there are a couple of conditions to fulfill the residency. One is that you attend their lab meeting every Tuesday morning, and the other is to create a project. [00:17:51] Speaker C: Judith said she spent most meetings doodling in her notebook, a practice she does both for concentration and as a part of her creative process. [00:17:59] Speaker A: I must doodle. When I'm at a meeting, blur. All is lost. I cannot focus on the meeting if I am not doodling. It's absolutely essential. I know a lot of people think that you are not paying attention, but actually, if I'm just sitting there trying hard to focus, I am definitely not focused. We teach our students at art school that they have an idea first and then they make it. And I think that is the conception of how art is made. However, that is not how art is made for me anyway. And I know I have a lot of company in this. When we talk about ideas about art, I think it gets filtered into this notion of, like, I'm looking at a picture of butterflies. So the idea is butterflies, but actually, even in this case here, the idea is, I can't wait to do these funky things to this grass. I don't care that it's a butterfly. That's just an excuse to do these layering things. [00:19:02] Speaker C: One topic that came up often during these meetings, Judith said, was the effect of architecture on cognition and biophilic design, which is designed based in natural motifs. Judith said that actually Dr. Melataki from earlier in this episode was working on a biophilic refresh room for a project which inspired Judith to create her own. [00:19:21] Speaker A: I was drawing a lot of flowers and birds, and I thought, well, I should design a biophilic refresh room. [00:19:28] Speaker C: It's hard to describe what this refresh. [00:19:30] Speaker B: Room that Judith created looks like, but it's essentially a dome enclosure that you. [00:19:35] Speaker C: Can walk into, made of wood. And Judith's stained glass pieces filled with these beautiful images of birds and bugs. [00:19:43] Speaker B: And plants, all with this incredible vibrant color. [00:19:47] Speaker C: As the light comes in, my description really does not do it justice. So we will link pictures in the. [00:19:52] Speaker B: Show notes and if you want to. [00:19:54] Speaker C: See the refresh room in person, it. [00:19:55] Speaker B: Will be on display April 12 to. [00:19:58] Speaker C: September 14 this year at the Michener. [00:20:01] Speaker B: Art Museum in Doylestown, Pennsylvania. [00:20:04] Speaker A: I am using a type of glass called frash glass. It was invented in the Middle Ages and it is characterized by a very thin veneer of intensely bright color on a base layer of clear or something pale. I have tools, some are hand tools and some are electric and some are not electric that I can carve into the surface. So what I'm doing is I'm removing color. I'm not adding color. It's very physical. It's very stressful on the body. And I'd find that is so satisfying. I need to be digging away, picking at something all day long to achieve like the maximum dopamine rush or whatever it is. It was, I think, self soothing. I am a nervous person, so it's a, I think, a really constructive use of nervous energy because it takes a lot of energy. I also have, you can probably guess, raging adhd. So I think that's one of the reasons I like to work with my hands and I like to work in what would be called a traditional craft mode. Because when I started out as a painter, what I noticed was you can fill up a canvas in like two seconds with a bunch of meaningless crap. But stained glass takes forever to get it to do anything. There's a whole lot of process involved. It's all painful and awful, and I love that. And that allowed me to, I believe, achieve some sort of emotional transference on my projects. So I wasn't throwing them out like I was with the paintings. Apropos of what Dr. Chatterjee said, I think everything an artist or even anyone drawing a picture is drawing a picture of their brain. Even when they're trying really hard to draw nature, they're drawing their own nature more than the nature of something else. So the project to me writ large was something more along the lines of what's the relationship of art and science in expressing human consciousness? I don't know if art can be healing. I know I've talked to my students over the course of many years. They all say quite vehemently that they are healed by making art. Making art seems to Definitely have healing properties. I certainly have thought, as have many artists, like, if I couldn't do this, I would just. I'd go crazy. Bad things would happen. And I know my students always say things like that. I'm tremendously grateful to have had a chance to be in Artisan residence at the Penn center for Neuro Aesthetics. It's been a wonderful experience. My residency is basically over, but I'll really miss it. But I think we're friends now, so I don't have to listen to the statistics anymore, which would be good. [00:23:10] Speaker D: So one of our goals in season three of the podcast was to bring in more voices. And we didn't want every episode to start and end just with Jake and myself. And some of that comes down to the beautiful questions and engagement with our audience. And we'll have more on that in just a minute. But we also wanted to bring in some other members of the podcast team, both in the reporting structure and in the episode discussion. And you heard reference during the episode to Dalia and Marie, who are both members of the team. We thought it'd be great to bring them back into the studio here for discussion of this episode. So. Hi, Dalia. Hey, Marie. How are you guys doing today? [00:23:51] Speaker F: Good. [00:23:51] Speaker H: Thanks for having us. [00:23:52] Speaker F: Yeah, thank you. This is fun. [00:23:55] Speaker D: So, Marie, could you tell us a little bit about yourself? What's your role within the Memory center and with the podcast? And then we'll turn it over to Dalia. [00:24:03] Speaker F: Yeah. Hi. As Terence had said, I'm Maria Engineering. I'm a member of the Penn Memory Center Communications team and a member of the podcast group. And my day to day activities at the center is I'm the events assistant. So I am working in the community to help brand the Penn Memory center and also building events in to build morale and enthusiasm and excitement among our team. [00:24:31] Speaker D: And this isn't your first podcast, Brody. Right. [00:24:35] Speaker F: Well, I had started. I was starting my own podcast, which was entitled what Happened on Vacation. And I'm still doodling around with that because I love to travel and actually I just love hearing about other people's travels and that one thing that happened on their vacation that they found fascinating and that could be if they lost their luggage. And then what happened? Did they have to stay with a new family? Did they have to figure out how to navigate the train system in Sweden? Did they have a fantastic dinner with somebody at a new restaurant? The unknown and how to navigate that is what I find incredibly fun. [00:25:19] Speaker D: And Dalia, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? And what you do with the memory center and how you're involved with the podcast. [00:25:25] Speaker H: Yeah, sure. So I am, Daya Said, and I am a communication specialist at Penn Memory Center. So my work is about getting sure that all the work that we do at Penn Memory center is shared. And then every day brings a blend of creativity, science, connections and strategy. And I'm also part of the Age of Aging editorial team. [00:25:47] Speaker D: So you both had toured the South Philly studio with Jake to meet with our artist in residence from the Penn center for Neuro Aesthetics, Correct? [00:25:57] Speaker F: Yes. [00:25:58] Speaker D: Cool. Dalia, why don't you kick us off? Why don't you tell us a little bit? What was that experience like? What is a stained glass studio even like? [00:26:06] Speaker H: Well, honestly, going to Julia's studio was really mesmerizing. Just watching her work up close, the patience, the diligence, the skill it takes to create these massive stained art pieces was incredible. And what really struck me with her work is that when we asked her about what it takes to create these massive and large scale projects and her answer was fascinating, she said that these projects aren't completed through bursts of motivation. They come together through discipline. And that's why I found to be very powerful, because I feel that in today's world, we are often held back by the assumption that in order to create something, we have to be inspired. But I think that we just have to show up, do the work and just trust the process. And now we know that this is all backed by science, which makes it all make sense. [00:26:56] Speaker D: I love that you talk about almost sort of the intimidating aspect of art, creation and basting. Who's a regular contributor this season. When she was in town for our Arts and Mind Festival, she talked about if you ask people, are you a creative type, almost everybody will say no. But if you ask people to create a conversation or doodle or solve problems, that people act on these creative strategies not just every day, but every hour of the day. Now, I don't know that holding a conversation is comparable to enormous stained glass construction, but I hear what you're saying there. Marie, how about you? Does that align with your perspective? How did you feel coming into the studio? [00:27:45] Speaker F: I echo much of what Dalia had said because when we walked in, I was wowed by the supplies and the tools and the effort that it takes to create a small piece of glass. I had no idea of what was involved and also the noise level involved with some of the instruments that she was using because she likened it to the sound of a dental drill. And she did Turn it on for us. And she was right on point for that. But as she was talking about her skill and her art, what was interesting is she mentioned that she has ADHD and that doing the work helps her achieve a flow state. And she's able to focus down and calm this movement in her brain, which I found fascinating, because as she was actually doing the work, I could see her whole personality calm down and focus. It was fascinating. [00:28:46] Speaker D: Jake, what was your experience like in the studio? [00:28:50] Speaker C: First of all, yeah, I totally agree. [00:28:51] Speaker B: With both what Marie and Dalia said. [00:28:54] Speaker C: I think something that stood out to. [00:28:55] Speaker B: Me was that Judith was talking a bit about how we conceive art in this way of the final product. Like, you look at her pieces and they look so, like, incredible and vibrant and beautiful. And you think, well, she must have had this picture in her head that she was, like, crafting around. And for her to say, you know, actually, it's more me doodling in my notebook pictures of birds and then layering on glass. It's like, it's more about the process of creating that gives birth to this piece really resonated with me because it's something I feel, honestly, editing this podcast, sometimes I get into this flow state and I'm creating something at the end of the day, but really it's about me, you know, cutting this line and putting this here, and where does this fit here and how do I put this here? Like, that is the actual process of creating is the step by step doing. So it was pretty inspiring just to put it into my. My regular life, to think that there's a lot of different crafts and processes that I do in my day to day that are creative and are kind of working towards something that I just can't really see yet. [00:30:09] Speaker F: You know, I agree with you about that, Jake, because after seeing what she does and how she achieves her end goal, it felt much, much more as though that I could achieve that. As you were saying, inspiring, because I think that some finished art is intimidating. But if I just get something, for instance, for you just said writing, if I just get something on paper or if I just start knitting a row, then I have some confidence and I can go to the next step and build on that. And then at the end is where the reward is, and it's wonderful. [00:30:46] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:47] Speaker C: And I also think it's like what Dalia said of. [00:30:50] Speaker B: It's more about the discipline and the showing up to the process. There's a common refrain with modern art where it's like, oh, I could do that. You know, I can make the scribble on the page. Well, it's like, well, you didn't show up and you didn't do it. Judith, as she said, you know, she. There's days she doesn't want to do it, she shows up and she just has to force herself to start scraping away at the glass, you know what I mean? And that's what creates the peace. So, yeah, I totally agree. I think it's inspiring that you can work something into your. Into your life and actually make progress with it. It was really, really cool. [00:31:25] Speaker D: So we got a little hint there after Jake and I admitted to our poor instrument playing here. Some of the hand focused cognitive skill building among the age of aging podcast team. I heard knitting Marie, is that, that's, Is that yours? [00:31:43] Speaker F: Yeah, I really enjoy knitting and, and my favorite thing I do is make these super cute baby hats that look like vegetables with a stem on the top. And I'm not an accomplished knitter, but this is my thing. And every time I will take this project on, I find that the beginning is hard and the end is hard. So actually just casting on, I have to look at a video and reteach myself. That, and then the middle I find very soothing because it's repeat, repeat, and I kind of just lose myself in the process. But then the end where I need to create a stem, I have to read the directions again and again, teach myself how to do that because it's a little bit more difficult. But I'm so thrilled when I've completed it and I have such a sense of accomplishment and it's very rewarding. [00:32:42] Speaker D: Excellent. And Dalia, how about you? What, what, what kind of activities do you take on to support your brain health? [00:32:49] Speaker H: Yeah. So I think for me, it'll be working out as you and Jake mentioned. But if we are talking specifically about, like, hand, it would be cooking for me. And it kind of takes me back to my childhood. One of the fondest memories I have of my grandmother was watching her making all kinds of pastries from scratch all the time. And I remember watching her kneading that dough and inviting her grandkids to join, slowing down and all that bits and pieces of storytelling that went into that. And it wasn't just about making food or just like preparing it. It was an act of love, and it was her engaging her hands and passing down those traditions. And in hindsight, I feel that that in part kept her mind berry sharp till the very end, along with some other lifestyle choices that she made. But for me, it is cooking. And I feel that it forces me to be present, to slow down. And it's kind of therapeutic to feel that all the noises in your head, they're still. You're just like present. You're doing this, anything, something as simple as brushing my daughter's hair and coming up with hairstyles for her. That is also some of the things that I do to be mindful and present. [00:33:57] Speaker D: I love the idea of intergenerational shared cooking as a cognitive activity because it hit new skills, practicing repeated habits and sort of recalling old lessons. You have sort of the meditative state that you get into with repetitive motions and kneading dough and so on, the social support of having loved ones nearby and in conversation. There's some level of physical activity in doing all of this too. And you, in addition to talking to an artist and visiting the studio, you also spoke to a number of scientists and were reading several different bits of research focused on this work. Jake, why don't you kind of walk us through a little bit about what that experience was like and I think you were joined by Marie for those. [00:34:44] Speaker B: Yeah, it was really. I love just talking to experts. As Judith said, one of her hobbies is listening to smart people talk. And that's like 75% why I like. [00:34:55] Speaker C: Working in podcasting and doing this work. [00:34:58] Speaker B: I love listening to smart people talk and having the ability to just ask experts questions about their field is really cool. So I loved, like Dr. Lambert talking about effort based reward versus non effort based reward. So, like, as you're creating something, it gives you a sense of control over the world. In a world where things, so many things feel out of your control. When you, you know, show up to that process, as we talked about earlier, and work on something and see it growing and see it becoming something, it's really satisfying. So, yeah, getting that to learn the, the science behind it and the brain. I, you know, I love thinking about human evolution and why we are the way we are and how our current lives are so different than how humans have lived for most of the time we've been on the planet. And really trying to use that knowledge to adjust my behaviors and to adjust my life. So, yeah, it was really cool. Marie, what was your experience like of those interviews? [00:35:59] Speaker F: Well, I loved talking with Dr. Lambert as she touched on, as you were just saying, about the evolutionary traits and how so much a part of our brain is devoted to hand movement, which coincides obviously with our early start as hunters and gatherers. And I just find, I find that fascinating. And then as she went on to talk about neuroplasticity and building a cognitive reserve, which is all about our healthy brain aging tips. So it all dovetails nicely with what we're talking about. And it's, it's so easy to adopt what she's been saying and put it in our day to day life. So I'm with you. I loved talking with the scientists and just expanding my own neuroplasticity. [00:36:49] Speaker D: Well, I really appreciate Dalia and Marie joining us for this episode. I hope we can continue to bring in more voices, help show all of the people who have helped make each episode of the age of aging possible. But with that, I think that's a good time to turn to our beautiful question. [00:37:08] Speaker C: Yeah. So for the first episode of the. [00:37:10] Speaker B: Season, we had the question, what kind of food makes you happy? And we got a lot of great. [00:37:15] Speaker C: Responses for this one. [00:37:17] Speaker B: So why don't we go ahead and play that? [00:37:20] Speaker I: Hi, my name is Crystal. I'm from Hoboken, New Jersey, originally from Puerto Rico. And my favorite food and food that makes me happy is mofongo. It's any, honestly, any Puerto Rican meal. It brings me back to home and I just love the taste. We have the best food. Sorry, I hate to say it, but we do have some of the best food and it's my absolute favorite. Thank you. [00:37:44] Speaker C: Hi, my name is Sam. [00:37:46] Speaker I: I'm from King of Prussia, and my. [00:37:48] Speaker C: Favorite food is chicken pad thai. [00:37:52] Speaker I: That makes me happy. My name is Kathy Casey, and I'm calling from beautiful downtown Gwynedd Valley, Pennsylvania. And I had to answer your beautiful question because my favorite food has always been and always will be spaghetti. Hi, my name is Sam. And chicken tenders make me happy because it reminds me of the restaurant that my mom worked at when I was a kid. Hi, my name is Maya. I'm calling from New York. A food that makes me happy is pickles. Especially, like an unexpected pickle. Like maybe like I get a sandwich or a burger and there's like a really tasty pickle on the side. Brings me joy. Hi, my name is Layla Barnes and I am from Philadelphia. Paul. My favorite food that makes me happy is rice and chicken. Okay, thank you. At treat booth, Lynn, Pennsylvania. Chocolate. My name is Mike. [00:39:09] Speaker D: I'm calling from Camden, New Jersey. And food that makes me happy is. [00:39:14] Speaker I: Sugar before dinner because it reminds me. [00:39:16] Speaker C: That I'm an adult and no one. [00:39:17] Speaker D: Can tell me no anymore. [00:39:20] Speaker B: Thanks, everyone for calling in and submitting answers. Those are really great. [00:39:25] Speaker C: Please keep them coming. [00:39:26] Speaker B: We love hearing and sharing your voices. On the show. So for next week's episode, the question is, what is something that you would like to learn? So actually something I just started learning is the guitar. I just joined some classes and it's the first instrument I've ever learned how to play, or at least learned this much of which is not much so far. I know a few chords, I'm getting better at changing between those chords. I love learning new things, but I really have never learned anything musical like this before and it's very different from anything that I do in my day to day. And I'm finding that at the end of the day I really just want to sit down and try and work on a song or work on a strumming pattern or something like that. I find it very relaxing. It can be a little frustrating, but the feeling of making progress is just so satisfying. [00:40:23] Speaker C: So if you would like to answer. [00:40:24] Speaker B: That question, what is something that you would like to learn? Please call 571-449-6474. So that's 571-449-6474. We really love hearing all of your answers to these questions and I'm really excited to share them in the next episode. Thank you so much and thanks everyone for calling in. See you next time. Thanks for listening to this episode of the Age of Aging. The Age of Aging podcast is supported by the Penn Memory center, the University of Pennsylvania Alzheimer's Disease Research center, the Institute on Aging, and the Penn FTD Center. [00:41:07] Speaker D: Contributors include myself and Jake Johnson, as well as Nicolette Calavecchia, Dalia Elsaid, Marie Engenieri, Jason Karlewish, Emily Largent, Meg McCarthy, and Megan Sharp. [00:41:21] Speaker B: More information on the stories you heard today can be found in our show Notes and on our website, pennmemorycenter.org.