Episode Transcript
[00:00:02] Speaker A: The idea that there is a disease that almost gives you a kiss before it takes everything away. The idea that there could be brain up function as well as decline existing inside the same disease process gave me such hope and a tremendous, mysterious feeling of, okay, we don't understand how we work as much as we think we do. I thought I have to tell this story and help other people feel the same wonder that I did. I want to share it.
[00:00:49] Speaker B: Welcome to the season finale of the Age of Aging, a show about living well with an aging brain. For the Produced by the Penn Memory center in the Michael Nadoff Communications Hub. I'm Terence Casey and my co host Jake Johnson will be with us in just a minute. But first, I wanted to thank you for being a listener this season.
We're going on a little bit of a break, but the show will be back in February and we may have some bonus content pop up before then.
In the meantime, if you have any story suggestions or feedback, we'd love to hear from you. And our contact information is in the show notes.
But for our season finale today, we thought we'd try something a little bit different from what you're used to. But first, a word from our sponsor.
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[00:01:59] Speaker D: Hey, Terrence, how's it going?
[00:02:01] Speaker B: Hey, Jake. Welcome to the season finale.
[00:02:04] Speaker D: Yeah, I can't believe it. I can't believe we're at the season finale. It feels like we just started this podcast like a month ago and we're already at a season four finale. So thank you to everybody that's been listening so far.
The audience is continuing to grow and it's been. It's been really, really great to see. So here's to more age of aging in 2026.
Okay, Terrence, I want to try something a little bit different this episode where I'm going to tell you a story and you can interrupt whenever you want if you have any questions, but I'm just going to go through and. And tell you a story. Does that sound okay with you?
[00:02:44] Speaker B: That sounds great. Love. Love story time. And I have no trouble interrupting if I need to.
[00:02:50] Speaker D: All right. Okay, good. I'm glad. So first I'm going to play you something.
Have you heard this before?
[00:03:06] Speaker B: I have. This is the bolero, right?
[00:03:10] Speaker D: Yes, it is bolero. And you know it more than I do, because a few months ago, I really didn't. I didn't know what it was.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: I don't know a lot about it. I recognize the tune. I think we've talked about it in our office sometimes. And I know Bolero is written by Ravel. I'm familiar with the structure, but honestly, that's about all I have for you.
[00:03:32] Speaker D: Right. Yeah. So you're right. This is Bolero, and it's written by French composer Maurice Ravel. Just a little backstory on it. He wrote the piece in 1928, and it's considered one of his most famous compositions.
And when I first heard it, it sounded a bit familiar. I don't really listen to classical music, but our executive producer who's been on the podcast many times, Dr. Jason Carlos, he very much is a student of classical music, and he came into our editorial team a few months back and asked the same question of whether or not I knew this song Bolero, and whether or not I knew Maurice Ravel, which I obviously didn't.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: Yeah, it's funny, because listeners of the show are probably wondering why on earth we talk about Bolero at a meeting at an Alzheimer's disease research center. But honestly, it's not that unusual for our team to be distracted by the arts.
[00:04:33] Speaker D: No, yeah, not. I mean, if you've listened to the podcast, you know how many episodes we do about art or incorporate some kind of art.
So Dr. Carlos explained to me in that meeting that Bolero is actually one of the last pieces that Ravel composed before he began to progressively lose his ability to write and speak. And he increasingly started to struggle with depression and insomnia and, like, general motor skills, you know, over the course of some years. And Bolero was one of his last compositions.
He actually received exploratory brain surgery in 1937. I think his. His brother brought him in because he thought that there might be something wrong with his brain. And when the surgeon opened up his skull to look at his brain, which I actually read, he might have not even had any kind of anesthesia or anything. I mean, just crazy. He saw that his right frontal lobe had atrophied and was limp and loose.
And Ravel actually slipped into a coma after the surgery, and he eventually died over a week later. So the interesting thing that Dr. Carlos explained to me and how this really relates to the Penn Memory center and aging, is that given Revel's symptoms and the examination by the surgeon, scientists today speculate that Revelle had a neurodegenerative disease that impacted the frontal and temporal lobes of his brain, and likely he had frontotemporal degeneration, which we've talked about a few times on this podcast, as a kind of neurodegenerative disease that causes dementia that is different than Alzheimer's. Here is A clip of Dr. Bruce Miller, who is an FTD expert and a professor of neurology at the University of California, San Francisco.
[00:06:30] Speaker E: So FTD tends to begin in the front part of the brain. When it begins on the left side, we have progressive trouble with language predominantly.
When it's more bilateral, we tend to have massive changes in social behavior.
Loss of empathy, disinhibition, antisocial behaviors, apathy.
So FTD begins as a behavioral disorder. We have research criteria for ftd. And unlike anything that you typically see in early Alzheimer's disease, disinhibition, loss of empathy for others.
Repetitive compulsive behavior sometimes leads to visual creativity, but not always so.
[00:07:18] Speaker D: Bolero is very unique in his compositions in that it is very repetitive. It has this kind of repeating rhythmic pattern. I think there's a few melodies that kind of come and go.
The orchestra starts to slowly come in throughout the piece until it's crescendoing, but it has this similar repetition throughout the whole thing.
So experts like Dr. Miller speculate that Revelle crafted Bolero at the very beginning stages of developing FTD because ftd, one of the symptoms, as he explained, is that people take part in these kind of repetitive behaviors. There's actually a story. Who knows if it's actually a real story, but at the premiere of Bolero in Paris, a woman supposedly yelled out from the crowd that Ravel was mad. And Ravel, after hearing that she'd said that, said that she understood the piece.
[00:08:17] Speaker B: Oh, so you mean mad, like he had gone crazy? Yes.
[00:08:20] Speaker D: Like he had gone mad? Exactly, yes.
So there's this idea that Ravel knew that something was happening to his brain and that Bolero was almost an example of something changing in his brain. So Dr. Miller said something else that I thought was super fascinating about ftd, which. Which is that because FTD atrophies the front part of your brain, the back part of your brain actually upticks in activity to compensate.
[00:08:48] Speaker E: When circuits in the front of the brain turn down, circuits in the back of the brain turn up, doesn't mean everyone becomes a brilliant artist. But I think this increase in visual curiosity, sometimes doing things that are visual, whether it's fixing a Garden in a beautiful way or even painting are more likely to occur in people with frontotemporal dementia.
[00:09:12] Speaker B: So wait, just to be clear, so you're saying that we're talking about neurodegeneration here. The brain is literally falling apart up in the front, but by doing so can make someone more creative?
[00:09:27] Speaker D: Yes. Yeah, exactly. So he was basically explaining that people will start to become more creative and take up more creative pursuits in the early stages of ftd.
And so this is where the story kind of takes a turn, because one of the patients that Dr. Miller had was a cell biologist named Ann Adams.
And Adams ended her career as a cell biologist and began fully pursuing painting, which before was just a hobby right at the start of her development of ftd. And she also became obsessed with Bolero and even made a painting of it with all of these shapes and colors associated with the different notes in bolero.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: This sounds so familiar.
I think I had heard this story before. Was it on Radiolab?
[00:10:17] Speaker D: Yeah. Yes, Radiolab. Yeah. So, yeah, I actually hadn't heard this story, even though Radiolab is probably my favorite podcast of all time.
[00:10:26] Speaker B: Right.
[00:10:27] Speaker D: Yeah, it's an old story. So they did an episode on the connection between Maurice Ravel and Ann Adams called Unraveling Bolero, and they actually interviewed Dr. Bruce Miller about this. And it was this story that playwright and actor Jake Roeder heard on the radio while driving one day in his car.
[00:10:48] Speaker A: And I listened to it, and I had one of those public radio driveway moments where I couldn't get out of the car until it was over.
And I heard about how Ann Adams and Ravel had the same disease and they created both the symphony and the painting at the same point in the disease. And they created it because of the disease, not in spite of it, before they both declined. And the idea that there is a disease that almost gives you a kiss before it takes everything away, the idea that there could be brain up function as well as decline existing inside the same disease process gave me such hope and a tremendous, mysterious feeling of, okay, we don't understand how we work as much as we think we do. I thought, I have to tell this story and help other people feel the same wonder that I did. I want to share it.
[00:11:47] Speaker B: I really like what he said there of the disease sort of giving you a kiss before it takes everything away.
We don't. We don't like to romanticize disease here at the age of aging or at the Penn Memory center, but certainly there are some moments of light and it's seeing the appreciation of art created over the course of disease could be some of that light there.
[00:12:11] Speaker D: I love the way he describes that, too. And so when Dr. Carloish actually came into that meeting and was describing Bolero and Maurice Ravel to me, he had received an invitation to the premiere of Jake Broder's new play titled Unraveled in Los Angeles.
And he said he wasn't able to go, but he wanted me to go instead.
[00:12:32] Speaker B: Your first work trip, right?
[00:12:34] Speaker D: Yep, my first work trip ever. I was shocked, honestly, when he said that, but I was like, okay, I'll go to Los Angeles. You don't have to.
You don't have to force my arm. Yeah, exactly.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: I want to hear all about Los Angeles, except maybe not the weather. It's quite cold in Philadelphia right now, but it feels like this is the right time to take a quick break to hear from our second sponsor.
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[00:13:35] Speaker B: All right, so where were we? You were about to hop aboard a plane and head west for beautiful skies and warm air, right?
[00:13:42] Speaker D: Yes, exactly. Fast forward a month or two.
I'm in la. I've convinced my girlfriend to come with me, which was great. We got some dinner. We're heading to the premiere, which was at the Wallace Annenberg Performing Arts center in Beverly Hills. I was feeling very fancy. I was on my first ever work trip, which was very fun. I felt like a different person now. Something that was super cool about this premiere was that it was actually an entire weekend full of events and they were calling it the Brain Health Festival. So there were art and movement workshops. I think Dr. Miller had a grand rounds during the weekend at some point. And then another element was the lobby of the theater for the premiere was filled first with Ann Adams original paintings. So there was an area that you could walk through and actually see her paintings that she did and the one that she did for Bolero. And she did a lot of paintings over the course of having FTD and They're really beautiful and fascinating and you can see the kind of little repetitions that she was just meticulously doing in all of her paintings. And then the rest of the space was dedicated to resources about dementia and FTD and these interactive activities that helped people understand what it's actually like to live with FTD and dementia. And all of these activities were run by the For Their Thoughts Foundation. And I was actually able to speak with their founder, Betsy Hall.
[00:15:11] Speaker G: My name is Bethany hall, the founding executive director for Their Thoughts Foundation. So we have two kind of two approaches. We have a Care for the Caregivers Relief program where we offer notions attached finance financial relief, grants to families going through this right now, and a personalized roadmap. And then the other is getting out in the community and empathy driven interactive education.
So we have here at Unravel the interactive lobby where you can get an inside out experience of what it's like to have dementia. Because if you can understand it and feel it, then that can help you care better, have better quality time with your loved one or your patient.
[00:15:58] Speaker D: Yeah. So Betsy Halls for Their Thoughts foundation, really cool organization.
My girlfriend and I, we were doing some of these activities. One of them was like, you put on these special, like really chunky gloves and try and zip up like a regular zipper on like a coat or your pants. And it's super difficult. And you can really feel how frustrating it is to do this very ordinary daily task.
And then there was someone at each station that was a part of the organization. And each person usually had a personal experience with a person with ftd. Janet and I talked to a man named Arnie, whose wife had ftd. And it was really just touching to hear his story and have these experiences that kind of show what it's like to have FTD and dementia. Right before going into this play that's all about ftd. So this is the playwright again, Jake Broderick, talking about the inspiration for the Brain Health Festival surrounding the premiere.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Art that tries to teach you things on the whole stinks.
It's really hard to do that well.
It's burdensome, it's self righteous, it's not cool, turns people off.
And yet there is a profound need for education, for awareness, for reducing stigma, for supporting the community, and for medical education.
I was thinking about, how can we do both?
Why do we have to choose? Sometimes you need a piece of art or a celebrity or something to put a flag in to be able to say, hey, pay attention to this because this is cool. But then you Come out of the room and you're all fired up. You're like, oh, what can I do? I'm excited about this. What can I do?
And I was working backwards and thinking, how do I want the audience if I was watching this? I've just seen the play. What do I wish I could come into? I said, I wish that all the services and the amazing ecosystem that exists around FTD was on display as soon as you walked out of the theater.
[00:18:05] Speaker B: So, wait, tell me about the play. How was it? What's it like?
[00:18:09] Speaker D: I don't want to give too much away about the play itself. I think people really should see it for themselves if they can. I really enjoyed it. I'll try and talk about it a little bit without giving too much away.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: So it's not showing in LA anymore. If people want to see it, when and how will they have the chance to.
[00:18:26] Speaker D: So there is a plan for the play to come to Philadelphia next year, which is really exciting. So they're going to. They're going to do an east coast premiere of the play play at the International Conference on Frontal Temporal Dementia, which will be held in Philly next fall, which is really cool. So if anybody lives in the Philly area or just the, you know, the Northeast, they should definitely come and check.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: It out or is willing to travel to Philadelphia. It sounds like you were willing to travel across the country for it. Maybe. Maybe we'll bring in some of our listeners from California to see it here.
[00:19:02] Speaker D: Yeah, true. And we will have more information on the Philly showing of the play soon. So if you want to get updates on that, you can subscribe to our newsletter, which we will link in the show notes, and we'll also link the official unraveled website in the show notes as well.
So getting back to the play itself, it really centers around Ann Adams and her husband and caregiver, Robert Adams, as she progresses through the disease.
Lucy Davenport plays Ann Adams in the show and is also married to Jake Broder. So she was very much involved in the creation of the show from the beginning.
So here's Lucy talking about Anne and the play in general.
[00:19:42] Speaker H: What Anne did was take music and make it into painting. And then how could we take that and make it into theater and make it into a piece of art that didn't teach people or wag their finger, but would inspire people and be a story in its own right, but also have a message of hope for people. Because almost everybody we meet, especially on this journey, has had an experience with dementia. A family member A friend, an older relative.
It's so common now, and we have so little language to talk about it.
[00:20:18] Speaker D: So while the play is mainly focused on Ann Adams and her relationship with her husband, it's also about her, her relationship with Bolero and Maurice Ravel. And if that is confusing to you, that makes sense, because Ann Adams was alive in the 1990s and early 2000s when she saw Dr. Bruce Miller, and Maurice Ravel composed Bolero in 1928. So this is where the play gets a little bit more surreal, in that it's kind of jumping back in time between Ravel and Adams and they're communicating with one another about their art and about their condition and having this kind of relationship through time. And I think the play does a really nice job of blurring the lines between what is real, what's happening in Adam's head, and what's just fantastical. You don't really question it. The play itself is on this, like, very plain stage, and you can see the other actors actually sitting on the sides of the stage throughout the whole play, and the musicians as well.
And sometimes, like, when there's a scene between Adams and her husband, an actor will come up and hand her a glass of water from the side of the stage or move something around. So you get this kind of surreal sense of what's going on in the play. And Dr. Carlos has talked about this a lot, that there's a real surreality to dementia, which I think Unravel really captures, like something is both real and unreal at the same time.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: So just to be clear, too, we talk about the surreality of dementia, but is this just part of the play or was this actually Ann Adams experience in real life? Did she have this kind of surreal experience relationship with Maurice Ravel?
[00:22:07] Speaker D: Well, she was really obsessed with Bolero, and she would play it while she was painting. And obviously she did that painting of Bolero.
So I think the play is extrapolating on that a little bit, drawing it out. Like, what if they are having this metaphorical connection through time because they have the same condition and are reacting in very similar ways through their creativity and their art?
So I'm not sure if, like, in reality she felt like she was actually talking to Ravel, but my take on it was that this was an artistic abstraction of what Anne was experiencing with her obsession with Bolero. So I actually was able to speak with the director of the play, James Bonus. And then at the end here of these clips is Lucy Davenport again, talking about how they used the form of theater and movement and dance to portray the progression of FTD and dementia without it being a caricature or an imitation of somebody with the condition.
[00:23:16] Speaker I: I'm James Bonus and I'm the director of Unraveled. When you're doing a piece about someone who has a condition that results in certain physical, behavioral, psychological and cognitive impairments, and yet none of the actors have that condition, how do you explore that on stage without doing Dustin Hoffman, Rayman, Daniel Day's My Left Foot?
Do you see what I mean? It's true. And actually, so it's about finding other ways to explore the experience of what it might be like to have those things and the feeling for it without going into a kind of mimetic kind of faking someone with that condition. So there's one scene where we have Andrew lose Robin, and we place Lucy, who plays Anne, in the middle of the platform. And we gave him the restriction that he can't get near. He can't get onto the platform. She's dislocated from him. And so from when you've seen them, they play very close to each other, hugging each other, kissing. Now he physically can't reach her, and yet he's calling out to her, shouting out to her to reach her, but he can't get there. And that feeling of someone becoming unavailable and you can't touch them, you can't reach them, that feels to me like.
[00:24:26] Speaker D: What it might feel like.
[00:24:28] Speaker H: And the movement is not dance steps. It's. For instance, we have a dramatization of the How Robert gets Anne to Ghent in a wheelchair. And taking somebody who has a lot of immobility on an airplane in a taxi, all these trunks through the security line is such a huge journey. So we started with the physical reality of that, and then we, with Sydney's help, cleaned it up, made it flow, made it more abstract so that you can see the price of that journey on Robert, and you can see that she's disengaged and she needs a lot of help and just what an enormous price on the caregiver that journey is. But it's also hopefully kind of beautiful.
[00:25:18] Speaker B: So, Jake, did you talk to these people before you saw the play, or was this after?
[00:25:23] Speaker D: Yeah, so this was actually the day after I went to the premiere.
[00:25:27] Speaker B: Okay, so you had already seen the play. What was it like from the audience perspective, seeing this silent language on display? Was that something you thought about or recognized while it was happening?
[00:25:39] Speaker D: Yeah, definitely. It's very clear in the play that there is A certain choreography, a certain way that the actors are moving. That is, again, I don't want to just keep overusing the word surreal, but it's very abstract.
They're not moving like a regular person would move throughout the stage. It feels like the play itself is kind of unraveling as it's going on and becoming more and more confusing and abstract.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: And it sounds like this play.
[00:26:13] Speaker D: I thought this was a play about.
[00:26:15] Speaker B: The lived experience of two different patients living with this shared disease, but it sounds like the play is actually largely about the caregiving experience.
[00:26:26] Speaker D: Yeah. And that was something I was really happy to see represented in the play. And it's done really well. I want to highlight this character of Robert Adams, who is played by Andrew Borba. He really felt like the heart and soul of the play to me. He's kind of the person that the audience is seeing the play through. Like, Anne is the main character, clearly, but she's inaccessible. And that's a huge part of the play. Especially by the end of it, you really feel like Robert Adams because he just can't reach her anymore. But it also really portrays, like, this love that he has for her. He has so much warmth and affection for her, but also so much frustration and exhaustion by the end that you really feel for him.
Another actor that did such a great job in the play is Leo Marks, and he plays Ravel.
And when he. When I spoke to him the next day, he really touched on another element of the play that I thought was super interesting and a question that kind of runs throughout the whole play as you're watching. So I'll play that right now.
[00:27:33] Speaker J: Is this me?
I mean, Anne asks if I'm.
If I'm degenerating, if I'm literally losing parts of myself and my behavior is changing as a result of that.
Is that me? And I think that's just a fascinating question.
Even outside of pathology. If your brain is changing and it's making you have a harder time remember, or come up with words, or if your brain is changing and it's turning you into this brilliant visual artist, is that you? If that's not you, what the heck was you in the first place? Since you.
What is determined? What is self? What is free will? What is creativity?
These are irreducibly fascinating, complex questions that I think the play kind of puts right right in front of you.
[00:28:24] Speaker B: Just to add one more question onto that litany from Leo Marx there. All of this sounds like exactly the concept we talk about in our clinic and in our editorial meetings. So often of what's it like to be you? I'm thinking about our episode, what's it like to Be Dan? About the interview with Dan Gibbs. And I think this definition of self and one's identity and how it changes over time, it sounds like that's the secondary theme of the show here. We could have called this episode what's it like to be Ann Adams? Or what's it like to be Maurice Ravel?
[00:29:03] Speaker D: Yeah, no, it is so true. And I do think that throughout this podcast, a lot of the efforts, I think, of this podcast has been trying to understand what is it like to be somebody living with dementia, or what is it like to be someone caring for somebody with dementia. And you can get close, and at the end of the day, you'll never fully understand what it. What it is like to be someone else. And I think that Marks really touches on one of my big takeaways from the play and from the whole weekend, honestly, which is really that there is no set sense of who we are, you know, that we're constantly changing. You know, I've come to feel that about myself, that there is this idea of me, but I'm really changing all the time. And I think Ann Adams and Maurice Ravel are these extreme versions of it due to ftd, but they do show that we don't necessarily have to mark change in individuals as good or bad. Like, we don't have to judge them. They're just different. And in Ann Adams case and Maurice Revelle's case, they developed a new kind of creativity. Their art changed, what they were interested in changed. And obviously, it's very tragic to get a disease like ftd, but it also can be something that has its own beauty to it.
The last clip I want to play in this story is of Tracy Leigh. She's another actor in the play. She plays two characters, actually, Ida and Carol in the play. So she was, I think, the last interview I did, the day after I had seen the play, they were going to perform the play again that night. And so this is like right before she's about to go on stage, she said that her mother was in the crowd. She had just come from one of the workshops. Her mother and her brother was there as well. But her mother, at the beginning of the audition process, was diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease. And so she was attending the premiere and actually has Alzheimer's disease, is experiencing dementia, and was utilizing these workshops that were in place for the weekend. And so it was this incredible coincidence, you know, that she was really connecting to the play and everything felt very close to home for her. And she. She shared a similar sentiment to Leo Marks that she took away from going to one of the workshops.
[00:31:29] Speaker C: I'm gonna talk about one of the things that was mentioned in the workshop. I just came out of the idea that the brain remains plastic, like, for so long. Everyone was like, oh, you hit a certain age and you stop making brain cells and it's downhill from there. But that your brain still keeps trying to find a way and that if you allow it to. If you do the sorts of things.
This case of the workshop, I just came from movement.
Or you, like Adams, you allow yourself to dive into the painting, that there are possibilities for your continued growth and development and expression as a human being, even as if it is what you thought it was going to be, or even if it wasn't what you planned.
We all age, we all go through sort of different environments and different experiences, but all of this is still part of the process of living and growing.
We're all headed to the same end. But how do you embody that journey?
Whatever has happened to you, whatever you're going through, how do you live to the fullest in the journey that you're on?
[00:32:37] Speaker D: Yeah, and I just thought that that was a really beautiful sentiment, that we are just continuing to grow and to live. And that while scary and very upsetting to receive a diagnosis of a neurodegenerative disease like ftd, it doesn't mean that life is over and everything is. There's an end. I think that was really a great takeaway from the play for me, was just how much Anne was still able to create and do and live this new chapter of her life, even though she had ftd.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: One of the maxims of our work at the Penn Memory center and of this show as well, is we always talk about how until there is a cure for the various causes of dementia, we have to learn how to live with those diseases. And it sounds like this play has shown that better than we could tell people how to do it.
It's not trying to hold on to as much of your yesterday's life as possible, as much as it is identify what today's life is and what your capabilities are, and maybe even what your interests are, and maybe even who you are.
And I know that I'm not going to hear Bolero the same way again.
And I certainly look forward to checking out this show when it comes to Philadelphia and hopefully meeting some of the same people that you got a chance to see out in Los Angeles.
[00:34:15] Speaker D: I just want to quickly say thank you to Jake Broder and the whole Unraveled team for having me out to the premiere. It was such a wonderful event and they did such a great job with the festival and the whole weekend and giving me all this access to everybody. I interviewed so many. I interviewed the whole cast and they didn't make it into this. But I just wanted to say thank you to everybody and thanks for making this this show as well. I think it was really cool to talk to people about FTD and science and creativity and how those things intersect through the lens of this play that was created to raise awareness, but also help people connect with the disease and the disease experience. It all just really tied together so nicely. So bravo to that. And, and thank you to Dr. Karlewish for. For sending me out to Los Angeles.
I really appreciated that.
[00:35:12] Speaker B: Thank you, Jake, for not just this story, but every story you've brought to our listeners this season. It's been a lot of fun. I think we've helped tell the stories of aging and how to live with the changes that come with aging, and I am really looking forward to seeing what stories we're going to tell in 2026 and beyond.
[00:35:32] Speaker D: Thank you, Terrence. Yeah, it's really an honor to make this show. I don't really know how I got so lucky. And thank you to the whole audience for listening. It's been so wonderful. And yeah, here's some more stories in 2026.
[00:35:48] Speaker B: Happy New Year, Jake.
Thank you for listening to this episode of the Age of Aging. The show is made possible by generous support from the Michael Nadoff Communications Hub Fund and our sponsors, the TIAA Institute and Rothkopf Law Group, the Age of Aging has Progressed. Produced by the Penn Memory center in partnership with the Institute on Aging and the Penn FTD Center.
Our team includes Dahlia Elsaid, Jake Johnson, Jason Karlewish and myself, Terrence Casey. Contributors include Nicolette Calcavecchia, Emily Largen, Allison Lynn, and Megan Sharp.
[00:36:23] Speaker D: Special thanks this episode to Dr. Bruce Miller, Jake Broder, Betsy Hall, Lucy Davenport, James Bonus, Leo Marks, Tracy Leigh, and the entire Unraveled cast and team.
If you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to the podcast, leaving us a review or giving us a like. These types of things really help others find the show.
And if you know someone who might be interested in these conversations, share this episode with them. We also love hearing from our listeners. If you'd like to reach out, our contact information is in the show. Notes Nuts.
